.
.
.
.
.
Go ahead, dismiss Fountain Valley, California, as a one-horse town with a Mile-Square Park whose city-limits sign (pictured at the end of the post) resembles a buxom woman in fishnet stockings bending over to touch her toes. Go on, blame Fountain Valley for the bad smell on the 405 as you pass Euclid Street. Whatever you say, this plucky little neighboring hamlet of ours has made national news as the first city to stop the theocratic juggernaut known as “In God We Trust Inc.“, bringing pride and hope to all patriot hearts that still value separation of church and state.
Launched a few years ago in Bakersfield, evidently by devout Christians who sincerely believed that posting a religious motto in government buildings would somehow help improve Americans’ “moral fiber”, the “In God We Trust” crusade was quickly adopted by Republican Party operatives and has morphed into a program to dress up the GOP as the God Party in California. In Huntington Beach last April, the Republican council majority, ignoring a ten-to-one opposition from their constituents, were Hellbent on pushing through the measure in an attempt to embarrass the famously secular Debbie Cook. (That meeting was memorably depicted both here and here; so far there has been no discernable backlash against Debbie or her fellow Dem Jill Hardy for standing up for the Constitution and democratic inclusiveness.)
But the same political urgency didn’t seem to exist in Fountain Valley last week, where the one, well-loved, Democratic Councilman Gus Ayer was joined by one Republican in voting against the measure and another one abstaining, bringing the measure down. Gus’ pithy comment, “This is not a place we should be discussing theology, ” resulted not in mass riots and looting in FV streets, although it did occasion one solitary bit of hate mail from a Mr. Seeger, who, outraged that Fountain Valley had “turned its back on God,” promised to never spend a dime in the town as long as he lived, “even if the last shop in the world was in Fountain Valley!”
Well, just in case Mr. Seeger’s boycott impacts Fountain Valley’s sales tax revenue, I have compiled (with the help of Councilman Ayer and the Choctaw Sisters) a short list of Fun Places You Can Spend Your Money in Fountain Valley, alternating with common-sense patriotic quotes from last week’s meeting – just click “read more!”
COSTCO, at Talbert and Newhope – for a truly terrifying quantity of just about anything you may ever need! Plus, a relatively progressive and responsible company, which claims to be “committed to supporting charitable and community activities in the markets where we do business.”
Hello! My name is Marselle Sloane. I live right down the street. I’m here to speak up for freedom of and from religion. In my mind’s eye this is a foolish waste of time. Isn’t it enough that we have an invocation and allegiance pledge? To quote Thomas Jefferson: “Religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate that their legislature should “make no law respecting and establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”
“People do not come here for the purpose of practicing their faith although they are free to do so if they wish,” said councilwoman Cheryl Brothers, who voted against the display. “I believe that City Hall is where we do government’s business in everyone’s name,” she said.
“The proponents of this measure totally misrepresent the faith of our nation’s founding fathers….. We citizens don’t want government in our churches and don’t want churches in our government buildings… The great global calamities of the third and fourth decades of the last century were brought upon us by those that combined religious symbolism with nationalism to lull their populace into compliance” – Ken Arnold, assembly candidate for the 68th district (against the loathsome Van Thai Tran.)
Incredible chocolates available at BODEGA CHOCOLATES (off Newhope by Los Caballeros), and you can see the Chocolate Madonna that put Fountain Valley in the national news!
In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus, the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when “church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischief’s that have ensued.” The City of Fountain Valley was incorporated in 1957 and I have a question for the council. Why are you proposing today that we need to spend tax payer’s money to put up “In God We Trust” which is offensive to so many residents (myself included)? This appears to be contrary to our constitution and to democracy itself. I ask you, what is your purpose? – Carol Moore (pictured below with Fountain Valley sign)
The amazing, spectacular, awe-inspiting FRY’S for all your computer needs: “The place you get the best advice on electronics, not from the surly, untrained staff bur from the other customers in the aisles.” Oh wait, I think that’s not a company slogan, but a snarky observation from my interlocutor. Dammit!
Make no mistake, we are not here to talk about honoring God tonight. We are here to discuss whether to make a political statement supporting a narrow viewpoint of Christian fundamentalists. While portrayed as non-denominational, you won’t find Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, Islamic, or mainstream Protestants clamoring to erect “In God We Trust” in these chambers.
No, this is spearheaded by a small group of well-funded religious fanatics in Bakersfield called “In God We Trust America, Inc.” They have spread their mission up and down the San Joaquin Valley, and now they are tagging every City Hall they can in Orange County. Yes, tagging, just like gangs do to mark their territory. Christian Fundamentalists want to mark their territory in these City Hall Chambers. These people don’t believe in the America of our founders…
Jefferson, Madison, Washington and Franklin gave us an America where each of us worships as we please and have equal citizenship before our government. …Separation of Church and State has served us well. Don’t let it be eroded by a seemingly innocent plaque hung behind the dais. Think long and hard about how others see these chambers when they come to do city business. Don’t let these chambers be tagged. – Rich Gillock, DPOC
One of the best raw food menus in the county: Au Lac Gourmet Vegetarian Restaurant, 16553 Brookhurst St near Heil, across from Mile Square Park.
Steven Schwarz of Fountain Valley’s King of Glory Lutheran Church (Slater just east of Brookhurst) said that those who should find the display most objectionable are Christians and other religious people. He said such displays and other such secular uses of the word compromise the “integrity of the language of faith” by secularizing the word “god,” essentially “taking the Lord’s name in vain.”
PET SUPPLY Online, highly recommended by the Choctaw Sisters, is “a one-stop online pet supply shop. We offer you the best shopping experience possible. We offer a nice variety of quality dog supplies, cat supplies, and other supplies for whatever type of animal you own. We offer some of the lowest prices on pet supplies on the net. We have beds, toys, crates, feeding systems, containment systems, and hundreds of other pet products that you might need to raise a pet in a happy environment. Our site features thorough information on all the pet supplies we carry all at the lowest prices anywhere! Prices my vary between in-store and online. Located at 18545 Brookhurst, at Ellis, phone # 714-964-5585
We are opposed to the display of “In God We Trust” within the Council chambers. This slogan would be perfectly appropriate in a church or synagogue. “In Allah We Trust” would be expected in a Mosque. But this is not a house of worship. This is a house of Democracy.
By having this motto in the City Council Chambers this freedom [of religion]is violated. An individual who comes before this body must know that each citizen is equal in your eyes, regardless of religious belief. Our constitution is designed to protect the minority. By including this motto in your chambers, as elected leaders of your city, you will have failed your constitutional duty to protect the minority. – Stephanie Campbell, president, Orange County chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
SILKY SULLIVAN’S RESTAURANT AND IRISH PUB, 10201 Slater, right across from Council Chambers – where the local pols all go after meetings to get hammered. Silky’s “is a community oriented establishment and plans a variety of events that involve the community or some charitable organization. As well as a gathering place for local clientele, Silky’s is known for its sporting events, showing sports on all 16 televisions all the time.” Live music Friday and Saturday nights!
Finally, as promised, “a nice place to live.” If you don’t see a woman in stockings bending over, back up a little. If you still don’t see it, you have a cleaner mind than I.
Heartening… very, very heartening. Thanks for reporting on it.
OMG I see the panties now.
Quick, change the signs before Rohrabacher puts them on his head.
Good on you Vern however, Carol is none to fond of “the buxom women bending over” quote preceding the photo of her! Tsk Tsk! ;-} ~M
I mean woman!
Vern, yet another informative but exceedingly amusing post! Maybe Mr. Seeger can boycott some other cities as well. Little did he know it would inspire good tips for shopping and eating, while educating us about the historical background of one of California’s coolest cities!
By the way, my mind must be pretty un-clean, because I’m now hard-pressed to see any kind of a fountain in FV’s welcome signs!
Fountain Valley uber alles!
Thank you Marselle, clearly one of the buxom women is NOT bending over.
Thank you as well Vern for reporting this momentus occasion and for the courageous Gus Ayers for spearheading it. Well spoken are the quotes above that give lie to the stated intention of this subversive group who’s real intention is less than religious or constitutional, its purely political.
My hope is that Americans are finally wise to the doublespeak being used by those who rely on purely emotional triggers to manipulate the American people. ‘They’ say its about improving morality but where is the morality in dividing people with differing viewpoints when we should be bringing those viewpoints together to mutually solve the very real and urgent problems that threaten us all regardless of our viewpoint?
‘Their’ goal is to galvanize their base so that through obstructionism or brute force they might impose their will and brook no compromise. Well, we tried it your way and all you did was abuse power, fatten your collective wallets behave immorally and discriminate against dissenters. You didn’t solve any of the problems. All you did was to ignore them or make them worse and add a few new ones. Well, we’re not listening to the words anymore, we’re looking at the actions and results and you guys, all you guys, have failed miserably (I’m looking at you Talk Radio).
So let Fountain Valley Callifornia raise the banner, sound the horn, and shout from the rooftops “We’re mad as hall and we’re not going to take it anymore.” Let this cry resound and be repeated from coast to coast.
Having lived and been part owner of a business in Fountain Valley in the early 80s I know lot’s of great places still around where I can spend some money.
The separation of church and state is not just a phrase the founders thought sounded good. The theocrats who want to take us back to England prior to the formation of our republic have no clue how strongly many of us will support the Constitution.
Thank you to Gus Ayers (democrat) and Cheryl Brothers (republican) for doing the right thing. Congratulations also for demonstrating that elected officials can work together irrespective of party politics for the good of their communities.
Thank you both!
(oh, and thanks to the “chicken” who abstained!)
Is government a religion?
Separation of Church and State is not about removing religion and tossing it under a bus in favor of a “One World” governmental god called “Big Government“.
Separation of Church and State is all about maintaining religious Freedom.
There are other countries in the world were religious freedoms have been banned in favor of the “state secular order”. Go and live in one of those places for a few years and find out for yourself the important of religious freedom, in a free society.
So banning “In God We Trust” is not about Separation of Church and State, it is about separation of “Freedom” from “we the people“.
Don’t forget cheap gas at the Sam’s Club at Brookhurst and Warner.
The Bolsavik is happy to call Fountain Valley home. Mrs. Bolsavik is too.
Nice to hear from you Bolsavik, but I avoid Sam’s Club because it’s part of WalMart, and… well, we could go on a long time about why a lot of us won’t shop at WalMart.
Cook, I don’t quite follow you. But it sounds like you’ve set up a one-extreme-or-the-other situation in your head. No, none of us want to live in a “socialist” country that bans religion. That’s just as un-American as the opposite, injecting religion into the government.
And apart from the separation issue, one of our major complaints is that putting up “In God We Trust” in a place of democracy, makes folks who don’t believe in God or believe in more than one or whatever, feel excluded. (That’s why I did my “White People are Special” parody at the HB hearing, saying “well, people that are not white just don’t have to look at it!”)
I guess, looking at what you’ve written again, it’s what’s called a whole bunch of “Straw Men” arguments – you create these Straw Men to fight with, which are things nobody said.
Really? You speak from experience living in “those places”? May I ask where in the world you suffered living where “religious freedoms have been banned in favor of the “state secular order”? ~M
I believe Cook was in Vietnam when South Vietnam fell to the Communists. Don’t know how long he stayed. Tell us a story, Cook, a true one!
Everyone –
Vern is an example of a very dedicated Christian AND American. There should be more Christians like him out there.
We don’t always agree but his heart is in the right place. Seriously, what’s with the extreme arguments? Trust me, if I for one thought he was a socialist, I’d say so… I’ve never shied away from using that label before, it just doesn’t apply here. Separation of church and state is meant to benefit both, not just churches! Vern is a patriot.
SMS
Vern,
I am surprised that some people find the phrase “In God We Trust” objectionable.
Cook –
Personally, I find it objectionable because I don’t want approval of ‘God’s law’ (read: Yahweh) to be implied in any place that determines human law. Religion and morality are NOT mutually exclusive.
SMS
Cook, it is simple – a lot of fine Americans don’t believe in God, or believe in a different God or more than one God. The nation and its apparatus of democracy belongs to them just as much as it does to us Christians and Jews. There are plenty of good places we can write “In God We Trust.” City Halls are inappropriate. Try reading all the above excerpts again with an open mind. Nobody said anything anti-God or anti-religious.
cook, Vern and Sarah said it so well but let’s come up with an example rather than the general case. What if the Hindus wanted to put “In Shiva We Trust” above the door of the Santa Margarita City Hall?
I’m guessing that even you would object to that. I would object even though Shiva is considered the Supreme deity in some branches of Hinduism.
“Supreme deity” or “God”. What’s the big deal? There’d be a lot of happy Hindus though not any who were big fans of the Constitution.
I like “In God We Trust” but I don’t get to choose and I don’t want to.
I have a suggestion – let’s keep God out of our government and let people choose who they worship on their own without fear of being persecuted or labeled America-haters by people who belonged to religions favored by the government? Everyone would be free to practice their religion and government wouldn’t be playing favorites.
Oh wait, that’s what is meant by the separation of church and state and what the founders had in mind when they wrote the Constitution. It works for ALL Americans whether they believed in God or not and regardless of what God they believed in.
That’s the great thing about the Constitution. It’s meant for all of us whether you’re the President or a homeless person sleeping under a bridge.
Straw men begone.
Vern,
I followed the link to “In god we trust Inc”, I found it an interesting site. Thanks for including the link.
Ron, thanks for your insight, I think the Demo’s would have had a better chance to unseat Miller with you than the other guy. Maybe next time.
Sarah, It is just a phrase, like Mom and apple pie.
I followed the link to “In god we trust Inc”, I found it an interesting site. Thanks for including the link.
Sure, I will always include links to the folks I disagree with, but they’re still wrong, and don’t understand what it is to be American.
Ron, thanks for your insight, I think the Demo’s would have had a better chance to unseat Miller with you than the other guy. Maybe next time.
I think so too, especially as suspicions grow that Miller may have lied about his military service. Oh well, I’m rooting for Chau now and so is Ron, almost anyone’s better than Dirty Gary!
Sarah, It is just a phrase, like Mom and apple pie.
Cook, that’s what some backers say, and you know who gets really offended by “It’s just a phrase”? Serious Christians. At the Huntington Beach meeting, goofy Republican Joe Carchio said “Well, in God we trust isn’t a religious phrase if you just take the religion out of it.” You should really see the video of Christian Democrat Jill Hardy’s reaction to that thoughtless and nonsensical comment. The day after, she told me “I felt like my God was dragged through the mud last night.”
From another perspective, some Christians take a very conservative view of the commandment against taking God’s name in vain, and consider the use of their Lord’s name by politicians to advance their careers and egos as blasphemy.
There were certainly elements of that happening in Fountain Valley, with announced candidate for City Council Mark McCurdy visiting churches, working his own church, and activsts using of church email lists and the Holy Spirit bulletin to promote the issue.
The court case that the proponents rely on maintains that the phrase has lost any religious meaning and is just a patriotic slogan. How can a devout Christian accept that type of use of God’s name?
Amen!
Let’s move on guys, this issue is an irritating little mosquito; I just took joy in Fountain Valley’s city council having the courage to do the right thing. Can we move on to Dana’s panties fixation now? I’m working on a long serious post about that, if you don’t hear from me for another day or two. (Going deep undercover)
cook –
To equate ‘In God We Trust’ with ‘mom and apple pie’ is disingenuous at best. The former represents Judeo-Christian values and the latter represents America.
Those two concepts are also not mutually exclusive as our country’s greatness is not due only to Judeo-Christians, but also in part to people of many, many others religions and even many people of no religion.
The statement ‘In God We Trust’ ignores and denigrates the sacrifices of those who do not use the term God, or who in fact don’t believe in God, as well as their efforts to make this country the world’s leader.
Not to mention, it implies that the city government defers to religion on questionable issues instead of carefully considering them or deferring to the people instead, because, well, they just trust ‘him’ so bloody much!
Vern – I still think that Jill took that position for her own political gain. It was the only position that couldn’t possibly offend anyone, but in my humble opinion, still not the right one. Political convenience in the ‘lord’s name’ should also be considered vain usage, no? I guess she loves God thiiiiiiiis much!
SMS
Vern-
There’s also a Fry’s Electronics in Anaheim visible from the 91 freeway between Kramer and Tustin.
Last I checked this was also OC.
SMS, Jill Hardy’s position was the same as mine, and she deserves the same respect you gave me in comment #15. I don’t see why you’re so bitchy and snarky about her and her beliefs.
F&E Fan (by the way what does F&E stand for?) thanks for the tip, I’ll correct that. Anaheim, 91, that seems so far north to us down here, almost like South Bakersfield!
Vern –
I guess I’m just skeptical of her for some reason. I tend to read a lot into people’s inflection when they speak and I just got a weird vibe from her.
I was very specific in noting that what I said was only my opinion. I can’t quite explain it, but I just didn’t feel that she was being sincere. It seemed to me like she was feigning her anger.
SMS
Well, I’ve known Councilwoman Jill Hardy for years (since she was my son’s algebra and model UN teacher; before she ever ran for council) and I spoke with her a few times before the In God We Trust hearing, and the day after, and she is very sincere. About both her religion and her belief in the separation of church and state.
And I’d say that even if a bunch of us west county folks didn’t have high hopes of her running against Moorlach for supervisor when she’s termed out of council in 2010.
If you’re talking places to eat in Fountain Valley, try Pizza D’oro on Talbert, right down the street from Silky’s… AWESOME Italian at great prices! Also, there is a Japanese bbq place next to Prehistoric Pets on Brookhurst named Tsuruhashi and great sushi at Full Moon Sushi, on Brookhurst and Ellis. Enjoy!
Let’s face it… FOUNTAIN VALLEY SUCKS and I freaking live here. Nowhere else can you go to jail for leaving your motor home or trailer against the curb in front of your house. Nowhere else do ‘volunteer cops’ tear down posters for your lost dog or cat and nowhere else do small business owners get charged a fee as a ‘assessment’ to their business license (no one in all of city hall can tell you what the $35 is for, only that is is a “one time fee”). We were getting charged a fee for the separation of the trash at Rainbow Disposal. Now that the city has us separating the trash, did we get a reduction? Piss poorly run city… keep going south to Huntington Beach folks!!